Feb 24, 2020
Tara:
Teamwork makes the dream work. John C. Maxwell, I'm Tara Jaraysi Kenning, and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer.
Paul Casey:
When we live a little bit off, we actually reduce our chance of longevity in our job. We're closer to burnout when we do that and we just live an unfulfilled life.
Speaker 7:
Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast. Where local leadership and self leadership expert Paul Casey interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success.
Paul Casey:
Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Kat Lawrence. Kat is an organizational consultant and a good friend of mine. And a fun fact about her, she says she gives voices to her cats.
Kat:
Both of them.
Paul Casey:
Both of them, two cats. I sort of do that too, so we can laugh at our quirkiness together, you know? Well, before we dive in, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencer sponsors.
Neal Taylor:
Hello. My name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek.
Derek Johnson:
Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington State simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees, even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable, and protective employee policies to protect our client's business.
Josh Bam:
That's true, thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com.
Paul Casey:
thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Kat, I was privileged to meet you probably just a handful of years ago…
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
... Feels like it's been a longer. I was coaching a client in your building and she said you got to get to know the girl next door in the other office, Kathleen Lawrence. And I'm like, "Sure, I'd love to meet her." I made an appointment with you and we hit it off right away.
Kat:
We did. We did.
Paul Casey:
And so I got to hear all of your adventures and leadership development and I thought, "This is a kindred spirit."
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
So I'm glad I get to interview you today. So that our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you. Take us through your past positions that led up to what you're doing now.
Kat:
Well, it's kind of a checkered past, a little bit. I started out law. I actually started out to become a police officer.
Paul Casey:
Did you?
Kat:
Yeah. And I found out that what I loved about it was the law, and I could just absorb statutes and cases and loved it. And so then went into law. I soon discovered that the learning and the application are two different things, and became frustrated fairly early and thought, "This is probably not for me." And so I then went into business, became an entrepreneur. Did a few startup companies and then did some syndications and securities of low-income housing projects. Did that for a couple of years until they changed the tax act. Then went on to do more startup companies, mostly escrow mortgage companies, construction company and a couple of others. And then came back to law in my forties thinking, "I think I'm ready to really settle down and not have the stress of a startup and all of that."
Kat:
I found out the second time around that it's not for me-
Paul Casey:
Had to be convinced of that twice.
Kat:
Twice--had to go through that twice. I think I was 47 when I went back to university, and did my graduate work in psychology because that had been a passion forever. And I became a marriage and family therapist when I was 50. Then in that work, during the process of that work, I also did a lot of mediation work, guardian ad litem negotiations and divorces, things like that. And someone asked me if I would work out or negotiate a successful conclusion to a company where the owners were fighting. So we set it up for negotiation and during the negotiation I stopped it because I didn't think that was the answer. I thought the communication was the primary problem, which it turned out to be they never did sell the company. They're very successful owners of that company now.
Paul Casey:
Yay.
Kat:
So I kind of looked at all of that decided maybe this is really what I'm supposed to do and I love it. So I consult with organizations and companies and management teams that are not working well.
Paul Casey:
So was that your aha moment, was that the experience that you just shared?
Kat:
It was the aha moment for what I currently do-
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kat:
... To decide to go back to school, and psych was another aha moment. My husband is also an attorney, and I watched him argue in front of the appellate court, which very few attorneys in practice ever get to do, and he was absolutely brilliant at it. And the attorneys behind me kind of took a gasp when they heard him and said, "Who's that? Who's that?" And I was so proud of him in that moment and is appreciative of his brilliance and his passion. And I realized that what I wanted to do was something I was that passionate about-
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
... And what I'm doing now is it?
Paul Casey:
Yeah. So if you had to pinpoint your strengths, your talents, that... Boy, all that variety of jobs. You said checkered past, that's makes it sound like it was like the black market. But it just means like, you did a ton of things. You have a ton of experience. What's been those strengths or talents you can brag on yourself for a minute here that you have used to help make others successful through that?
Kat:
I think creativity. One, I'm very creative. So creativity, empathy. I think that's a huge, huge, huge part of being a leader anywhere in any capacity. Listening, that's another strength. Listening with from the standpoint of curiosity, what I call listening from curiosity. Which is being curious to really listen and hear what the other one has to say rather than listening to the first 11 words of what someone says while I'm preparing my response.
Paul Casey:
That's right. Brain chatter-
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
... And then the empathy kicks in after that. Right?
Kat:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Because you're in a position because you've really heard them to now identify with what they're saying.
Kat:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
How does someone develop more empathy?
Kat:
One, I would say develop listening because if... And listen from curiosity, it's really that curious part that for me was just innate. I think I came out of the womb curious about everything in the whole world and I still am. So for some people I think curiosity is easier for them for others.
Paul Casey:
Sure.
Kat:
But to come from a place of curiosity. So that when as I'm learning about you or learning about someone, I'm very curious, "How do you work? How do you think about that?"
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
What process brought you to that conclusion? So being curious and within that we all find the places where we identify with each other, where we resonate, and empathy is also one of those things where I caution people. Being empathetic means that I can identify with your experience, but I'm not going to go wading into it with you because then we're both lost. I have no hope of being able to be there to support you if I'm in it with you.
Paul Casey:
And that's sympathy right?
Kat:
Yes.
Paul Casey:
Not empathy?
Kat:
That's right.
Paul Casey:
So on the flip side, what's one of your biggest liabilities, and how do you mitigate that weakness so it doesn't limit your influence?
Kat:
One of my biggest liabilities I think is going to be one of my lifelong liabilities, and I'm still working on how to mitigate it. And that... Overcommitment, I have a tendency-
Paul Casey:
I don't understand what you're saying.
Kat:
Yeah, yeah. It's a tough one. And I deal with it daily, and sometimes I think I've really got it this time and I've got things pretty well managed. And then I wake up one morning and it seems like, "Oh my gosh! How did everything get so out of control? And I thought I was so under control." I think there's a life aspect to it. And then I still am struggling with how much is enough? When do I stop?
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). In that moment where an opportunity is staring you in the face, what is going through your head that you cave and say yes that yet one more time when the other angel on your shoulder is saying say no?
Kat:
Exactly. Here's the thing that always gets me, it sounds like fun, "Sounds like fun. Yeah. I can do that."
Paul Casey:
Creative side coming out.
Kat:
Exactly. That's it. Here's a place where I think I can really contribute something. Here's a place where I can really serve in some capacity, and it sounds like fun. And that one gets me every time, the one sitting on the other shoulder needs to have a louder voice. Stop!
Paul Casey:
Yeah. You see, I use these interviews as personal therapy-
Kat:
No!
Paul Casey:
... So I was hoping you'd give me some kind of solution to that. What are the consequences of over commitment for those listeners that also struggle with this?
Kat:
My primary is that I can't do everything that I've committed to do. So now, it's I can't do everything I've committed to do or I end up kind of falling off the face of the planet where I'm out of contact with people because I just can't catch up enough and I don't have answers and I don't know what to say and I'm not going to stop and think about it in the moment because I've got so much to do. Which is a lack of empathy actually, because I know how I feel when that happens-
Paul Casey:
Yeah.
Kat:
... When someone else drops off the face of the planet. I worry about them. Are they okay? Did I do or say something that was offensive at some point, and they don't know how to face me with it? There's all these kind of fantasy thoughts that go through my head about the possibilities of what could be going on. So I know I don't like that feeling-
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
... And that's actually where I try and go to change it. Where I decide, today I'm going to change this and get back on the wagon to a more manageable life.
Paul Casey:
Yes. Our constant quest. There was a guy named Bob Goff, that he said he quit something every Thursday. That guy must have a million commitments to be able to quit something 52 Thursdays a year. But that's like a relentless paring down of his life and I just thought, "Okay, maybe I'll quit something annually to get back to the right... Right sizing my life. So let's talk leadership, in your opinion, what's the most difficult part of being a business leader or being a team leader and why?
Kat:
I think the most difficult part for me is dealing with other people's fear. So whether it's other people on my team, clients, whoever it is. In that because I deal so much in leadership and leadership from core values and I know how that can transform fear into courage. And it seems like I've practiced it now long enough, so it's a fairly simple step process for me, but it's not for everybody. And that's the toughest part because I will sit down with someone, I understand what your fears are. Do you want your fears running you or do you want to be ready in life? How do you want that to go? Because as long as you're in fear, fear is running the show.
Kat:
Once I work with someone and they have their aha moment, I expect that they're going to be putting it into practice immediately because who wants to be in fear?
Paul Casey:
Right!
Kat:
Yeah. And it doesn't always work that way.
Paul Casey:
Because fear is powerful.
Kat:
It's very powerful. So there is where I have to really work at patience and understanding all of us. We are just where we are in the moment. We can't be better than we are in the moment, while we're struggling through something. We can work toward being better and get better. But in that moment to be able to get him empathy, and to be able to stand with that person and accept that person is exactly where they are, and that's where it is.
Paul Casey:
So you went right to fear. Fear seems like an undiscussable topic outside of the therapist's office. Right? So how do leaders or those that want to have more influence here in the Tri-Cities still talk about topic without feeling like a failure or too vulnerable. What would you say?
Kat:
Fear is interesting from the standpoint that for the most part, it's not real. Whatever it is, the fear isn't real. It's the threat of the potential of it, or the possibility of it. But what happens when we're in fear is that we're living as if it's happening now, when it's not. I use the example frequently with people of a five-year-old waking up from a nightmare, and you see their faces and their lips are purple and they're shaking and they're scared about the monster under the bed. But is there a monster under the bed? And the answer to that is no, but they believe it. And that is true even with adults, whatever the fear is that's in front of you, that's a belief about something 99% of the time that is not real.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
So the first thing is... And I talk about fear a lot because the program that I develop, leadership from core values, it's a lot about dealing with fear and how to get out of it, which is going to your own core values and finding your courage in the process of that, usually through your integrity.
Paul Casey:
So find your courage through your core values?
Kat:
Yeah.
Paul Casey:
That's one of the best ways to blast away fear.
Kat:
It is. If I am scared of something. My fear... I realize where I experience fear the most is when I believe I've made a mistake that could hurt someone else. And in that there's a lot of stuff that I'm dealing with, guilt or worried about other people, whatever it is. In the moment what I do is go, "What are my values? What values do I have that are acting here?" So there's the value that I care about other people and I'm compassionate, I'm empathetic. Those are all values. So I start counting those up. And then if that's the case, how do I use those values in my integrity? So how do I do the right thing from those core values? And when I find that, then it's beginning. There's your courage. That's the spot of courage to be able to... Courage is through your heart. It's not through your head.
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
So in that moment, to be able to face whatever that fear is but not just look at it, to be able to walk through it. Courage is an action. It's more than a thought. It's more than a realization. It's courageous action. So to be able to walk through.
Paul Casey:
I could see how that would play out. So if you're in a leadership position, you've got a direct report who's behaving below the line and every part of you is saying, "I don't want to confront that person, I don't want that. I fear the backlash. I fear that person's not going to like me. I fear, I may not say the right thing because I don't have enough tools in my tool belt." But if you have a core value of integrity or a core value of how we treat one another on this team, it would give you that courage to say, "I'm going to push through that fear and do the right thing in that moment."-
Kat:
Right.
Paul Casey:
... Which is confront them and that's going to then raise the level up for everybody.
Kat:
It really does, including that person. That's an opportunity. When somebody is performing below the line and I confront them about it. And again there's caring and compassion and all of those things that are there, but it needs to be addressed. And the earlier, and the quicker, the better before it becomes a mountain when it's small. Because then it's much easier to move on when you address them early. But in that moment when I'm doing that, it's an opportunity for them as well as me. I've thought that also when I fired somebody,
Paul Casey:
Is a rough day.
Kat:
... It's a rough day and it's an opportunity for everybody.
Paul Casey:
It is. And I remember that acrostic for FEAR: fear is false evidence appearing real.
Kat:
Yep.
Paul Casey:
So that's a good one.
Kat:
That's one of my tools in my tool box.
Paul Casey:
So people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think that's a John Maxwell ism. What would you say to leaders, to show their people that they're valued as a person, or whether they have clients or customers or staff? What would you say?
Kat:
I check in with them regularly. So I think if you're in an office where you have employees, then it's simply just checking it. If it's nothing more than good morning, it doesn't need to be a long one. You don't have to ask all about their weekend when you've got a full calendar, but to walk by and smile and say good morning, or get to see you in a day. If it's someone that is on my team that has a project that I know is a big responsibility, then I'll check in periodically with them. I won't ask if I can take over the project, I won't ask them, how are you doing with this aspect of whatever that project is, that's theirs to handle-
Paul Casey:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kat:
... And I'm going to let them do it-
Paul Casey:
You don't want to be a micromanager.
Kat:
Yep. Empower them to do it. At the same time, I will remind them because again, as a leader, you're also in... Anybody that thinks that as a leader you're not in service has a mistaken-
Paul Casey:
I agree.
Kat:
... Idea of leadership because that's part of it. So usually it will be a check in something like, "How's it going? Is there anything I can do to help?"
Paul Casey:
Yep. I think that good morning thing, well it sounds so trite is that the research has shown that if a manager does that and just goes through all the hallways and says, "Good morning everybody." It puts a positive input into everyone's psyche for the whole day-
Kat:
It does.
Paul Casey:
... And it's like, "Wow, just little thing is a boost in the morning for everyone."
Kat:
It does. I was thinking about when I had my therapy clinic, and people would come in and they'd be getting ready for the people that they were going to see for the day. And that can always be kind of a really heavy moment where you're going through charts, and how you're going to deal with issues that people are having and all of the things at work. And I would walk in the office, it'd be this really heavy quiet in there, and it was like, "Good morning. How are you doing today?" Get some energy going.
Paul Casey:
Well, Hey!, Before we head into our next question of Kat about her life hacks that help her be successful, a shout out to our sponsors.
Paul Casey:
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Paul Casey:
So Kat, what are a few of your life hacks that help you be successful on a daily basis?
Kat:
I think work... The things that can organize me. So anything that can help me stay organized. I'm big on calendars, lists, apps on phones. I love my phone. So I have apps for lists and I have apps for all kinds of things to kind of work on the organizational pieces of it. I had thought of some ones earlier, I can't think of any other ones in the moment.
Paul Casey:
No worries, no worries. Before you make an important decision, what process do you think through?
Kat:
I actually do one of two depending on what's happening. So the one is kind of what we talked about before, where I look at where are my core values? What are my core values are at play here?
Paul Casey:
Use it as a filter?
Kat:
Right. As a filter. As guiding for direction. As a foundation. Can use it for all of that and then filter all of that through my integrity. And usually within that, I know what the right thing to do is. The other one that I use is the Rotary Four-Way Test. Is it the truth? Is it fair? Will it build goodwill and better friendships? And is it beneficial to all?
Paul Casey:
It's a good test.
Kat:
It is a good test.
Paul Casey:
So who influences you? Who do you surround yourself with to keep growing yourself? One of those people that are alive or afar?
Kat:
Maya Angelou has been a great influence. I just respect and love her so much in her work and thoughts and appreciation. Again, I have kind of an eclectic list. George Patton is a big hero of mine, and I love reading some of the stuff that he's written, quite an armchair philosopher. Aristotle would be another one. So those are from afar near, my Rotarians and my Rotary friends that I have, are huge support to me in my life, and just a great joy to have that. That support and that team. And people like you, Paul.
Paul Casey:
Hey!
Kat:
You are definitely one of those people.
Paul Casey:
Thank you. When you've lived your life and you think back on your influence at the end of your journey, how do you want to be remembered?
Kat:
As someone who cared. Someone who people felt like they were important in my presence. They felt valued in my presence. I think I couldn't ask for anything better than that.
Paul Casey:
That is pretty cool. So finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence?
Kat:
Create support, create a team. Have good friends... Get a mentor. Have good friends and mentors that you can bounce things off of. Volunteer, developing leaders volunteer. When you think about all the organizations that we have and that they all have a shortage of volunteers and people who will take a leadership role in whatever capacity. It's a wonderful way for leaders to expand, and try out some of their newer leadership skills or grow new leadership skills. It's also a good opportunity to have mentoring. So you can kind of get it on both sides.
Paul Casey:
You can put in a plug because I know you're on a few boards. So what are the organizations that you are on, working on your leadership at?
Kat:
Rotary International, so rotary definitely. I'm a past president... Just past president of Pasco-Kennewick Rotary. Three Rivers Foundation, which is an endowment fund that gives money out. Similar to what the United Way does. The difference is with Three Rivers Foundation, it all stays here in Tri-Cities, 100% of it. And again the staffing, it's a mostly volunteer organization. The largest percentage of money that I've ever heard with any organization actually, goes out to the people who need it. Elijah Homes is an organization that deals with people who need a leg up for housing, and there's some wraparound services within Elijah Homes. They do an excellent job in that, it's not just that they don't provide a place for you to live without you growing and being accountable even from the very, very start.
Paul Casey:
I understand.
Kat:
So that one's really good. I like them. And Columbia Industries, so it's probably one of the oldest in this area. Actually in this area, that's the one I've been on the board the longest. So, to help develop mentally disabled people to grow in their own lives.
Paul Casey:
Awesome opportunities. So how can our listeners best connect with you?
Kat:
Let's see, my website, which is kathleenlawrence.com, and my email is kat@kathleenlawrence.com and my phone number is on my website and whatnot. And I'm a big texter, it's probably the fastest way to get hold of me.
Paul Casey:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a resource to recommend. It's actually for those of us who need more hobbies in our life. So I found a website that's called, notsoboringlife.com/list-of-hobbies. It's the longest list of hobbies that I've ever seen. Especially in the winter time, I needed a new hobby, so I went through this huge list and maybe you do too. Now you need to relax more in your life and find some avocation from your vocation. So, notsoboringlife.com/list-of-hobbies. Maybe that's one that's going to be great for you.
Paul Casey:
Again, this is Paul Casey and I want to thank my guest Kat Lawrence for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you both making this possible so that we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's Josh Heinz and he says, dare to dream, but even more importantly, dare to put action behind those dreams. Until next time, KGF. Keep growing forward.
Speaker 7:
Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org. For a consultation that could help you move past your current challenges, and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar Checklist, go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000, and type the word, growing.
Tara:
Tri-Cities influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.